physical, sexual, emotional, spiritual abuse of kids….when do you speak out?

Hot, muggy summers in Illinois, country drives through corn fields, and the scent of early morning woods take me back to time spent at church camp when I was a kid. The first week, staying away from home for 6 whole days, was a bit traumatic but year after year I returned, eventually becoming a girl’s counselor for both camp sessions and retreats.

I loved the whole adventure and had nearly forgotten the only negative experience I can remember….. until last week when I read this series of articles over on Wartburg Watch, some of which involve a child sexual abuse scandal and cover-up at an FIC that is part of a group of FIC’s with oversight by homeschooling veteran Gregg Harris. As horrifying as these stories are, they aren’t the worst ones  we have heard coming out of conservative ministries as well as churches. Credenda Agenda’s Doug Wilson, for example, admitted that he didn’t promptly alert parents in his church of a pedophile, instead he helped the young man court and marry a member of his congregation. And author Jeri Massi maintains an impressive list of fundamentalist perpetrators on her blog. If you still doubt these stories, check out the month long series of testimonies involving Bill Gothard that former ATI students have published. It boggles the mind.

So, here is my story:

I was about 19, heading back to college in the fall, and responsible for a cabin of 8 to 10 junior high age girls. Most of the other counselors were older men and women, nearly all in full time ministry, some of them married, but there was one younger guy, Jim, who was in his late twenties. I decided from the start to keep my distance and something inside me said to closely watch him around my girls as well; I cannot explain why other than to say that the Holy Spirit was telling me so. (I had had no prior experience with sexual predators other than the really creepy feeling I would get around one of my girlfriend’s dads. I always maneuvered to the side hug with that guy, if you know what I mean.)

One afternoon during free time, the girls had all gone off to do various things…swimming, boating, crafts, and choir. I was in my cabin by myself when I had this sense that I needed to look for one of the girls. Susan was taller than most of the others, looked a bit older than her 13 years, but not much, and was shy and beautiful. Walking out the door, I began to feel a sense of panic and found myself running directly to the boy’s cabin where Jim was the counselor.

The rough log building was situated in the most remote part of the campground, down a trail and into the woods. As I hurried, I began to pray that I would arrive in time but I wasn’t really sure in time for what. Quietly approaching the cabin, I heard Jim talking in luring tones to someone; I stormed through the screen door. In the bed, though fully clothed but under covers, I found Jim and Susan, he making every effort to undress her.  I was livid, my blood pressure rising, making me dizzy. I told Susan to get out of the bed and head out the door. I yelled at Jim, partially terrified for my own life, and I followed the scared young girl who was now weeping. Together we ran straight to the camp director’s office.

What happened after that is anyone’s guess. I told the whole story to the camp director and his wife while Susan listened and sobbed. She stayed at camp for the rest of the week but we never saw or heard from Jim again.

It wasn’t until I thought of this as a much older woman and it occurred to me that probably nothing whatsoever had been done to involve the law in the situation. I had never been contacted to testify, and a couple years later when I ran into the camp director, a pastor, while in college, it was as though nothing whatsoever had happened.

The pedophile was from this man’s church and I now understand the politics and dynamics involved. I do not agree with them, in fact I find them reprehensible, but I understand them. People don’t want to get involved and some Christians think the problems can be solved without involving authorities. Though I do not know what the law required back in the early 1970’s, I know that, today, any suspected abuse, whether it is sexual or physical, must be reported by any teacher or youth worker who is suspicious. To do otherwise makes one guilty of a crime. Jim would have been looking at about 8 years in prison for sexual assault if that happened this week at camp.

So what prompted me to write about this today? Well, I am just wondering what behavior toward a child on the part of an adult would constitute you getting involved. I mean, obviously I thought I needed to intervene on behalf of that young girl whose parents had entrusted me with her care for that week. And I certainly have been willing to speak out against child abuse that is passed off as discipline. In fact, I have even addressed emotional and spiritual abuse on this blog, the latter being the worst of all types of abuse, I believe. But at what point do you think something ought to be said or done about abuse?

I ask this because I was challenged that my article Exchanging a Stone for Bread was inappropriate because I mentioned ministries and people by name, telling me it can also harm homeschooling families and result in a curtailing of our freedoms. I am watching similar comments popping up on the HEF blog in discussing Dulce’s article. When is it appropriate to speak out? At what point would you say something to other homeschoolers? What if, for example, a small child told you the reason she was wearing tights to church in hot weather was because she had marks on her legs from the rod? What if you saw a church elder squeeze the inner thigh of his toddler to make him sit still in church?

I want to know what you think.

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  1. Pressing On says

    That’s a hard one. Adult behavior with a minor requires immediate action, period. I’m glad that you responded so quickly in the camp situation you described.

    And even in loving families there may be a time or two when the discipline isn’t handled well, but if a child is consistently being disciplined to the point of bruising or if the method is inappropriate (like pinching), I’d up the ante. How far? That’s a tough call, and would have to be prayed about as long as the child was not in immediate danger.

  2. says

    Wow. This post really pulled up old stuff for me. I experienced camp at fundamentalist church campgrounds over the years of my childhood and there were all kinds of things that were inappropriate. I really don’t think we knew how to find correct response in those days. People would get “sent home” or get prayed over, but as far as people being brought to authorities…I don’t think this happened. Unfortunately this probably allowed some to continue in their sin after they returned home. Sad.
    I think it continues to be a struggle in how to talk to those that might have abuse in their past and they continue to perpetuate it. I suspect that child (a grown woman today) is so grateful for your intervention today. I thank you for listening to your intuition.
    I personally have friends who I think use intervention with parenting their children (they call it discipline) that is too harsh. From words to slaps….sometimes we forget that even those close to us are children of GOD. And we don’t treat them as persons made in his own image.

  3. says

    I don’t have a lot of comments about this but I do have a story. When I was a little girl, there was a family in our church who had several children and two foster children. For some reason they severely abused one of the foster kids (but not the other). As far as I know it was mostly physical and emotional abuse (beating with bruises severe enough that she was never allowed to wear dresses, forcing her to chop her hair off, playing vicious tricks on her–like driving away from church to scare her and make her feel abandoned, then coming back a few minutes later laughing about it). We attended a small church where everyone knew what was going on, and as far as I know, no one ever confronted her foster parents. My mom spoke about it many times. She said that maybe someone should report them, but then the little girl might end up in another foster home where the abuse was even worse. So the abuse continued.

    Years later, I heard that the little girl grew up and became a prostitute. I also heard that she had contracted HIV and had two children out of wedlock, one of whom was also HIV positive.

    This is kind of a horrifying example, but it has made me realize even more than before that abuse is serious and its long term effects can be deadly.

    Each situation is different…there are relatively minor incidents (such as frustrated parents who just don’t know what to do with their kids and may be a bit harsh) to major ones (willful, repeated abuse). I also personally know of situations where children were removed from homes based on false accusations, so calling authorities not something we should leap to without evidence, but if we know for sure something is going on, the vulnerable among us should be protected. We should use common sense and discernment as well as obey the law when it comes to reporting, I believe.

  4. says

    I only have a second to respond but I’m grateful for your voice in the midst of much silence on this issue.

    I understand some of the fear in the homeschool community…(not that I particularly share it)…there is a feeling that kids will get taken away for what they feel is GOD’S WAY of discipline/punishment. I think we must always step in if we suspect abuse. However…the problem lies within the definition of what abuse may actually be. For instance…you know I am not a fan of spanking and for crying out loud…squeezing a toddler to keep still in church (I believe this is a good example because I know it happens a lot in our circles). However, do I think families should be investigated in situations as these? No, I do not. I think we need to keep educating and showing people alternative disciplines that are not punitive. It may not always be appropriate to step in however. I had a girlfriend contact me just yesterday asking if she would be in trouble because her toddler had been bruised from a spanking. I did not feel alarmed in the BIG SENSE because I understand her heart and that she is trying her best. I told her that kids do get bruised and told her that is *one* of the reasons I don’t like spankings. I also took it as an opportunity to share with her that many use gluesticks so there will be no mark and warned her not to listen to that advice because the punishment may seem mild but brings internal damage to the body. So, I forewarned her and gave my opinion without giving my entire stance on spanking…hoping that she may look into alternatives more, or open the door to more conversation between her and I. But maybe others would call on a bruised spanking as abuse? I don’t know….that is where the line gets tricky.

    However…if there is ANYTHING of a sexual nature or repetitive beatings involved….that would be the line for me to invite authorities to look into an investigation. The sad reality is that there is so much going on and there is really so little the government can do. I understand the Christian fear, but I do think checks and balances need to be in place because abuse is rampant in and outside of the church.

    Am I making sense? My “second” turned into 5 minutes….and I’ve been interrupted 30 times. I really need to do this stuff late at night 🙂

  5. says

    I have just read some articles here in Australia about mothers reporting family memebers for sexual abuse and the courts over-throwing the situation and claiming that the mother has a mental disorder. Then last night I heard news of an old neighbour that my children played on the street with had committed suicide. I don’t think abuse of any type should ever be covered up, no matter who it will offend. It is our job as adults to protect children, not be a party in covering up abuse. So many times nothing will even come of the reporting, this we all know, however we are and should be the truth and the voice for children. xxx

  6. Susan T says

    Your article is just fine. I believe NOT speaking the truth about -potentially  or  actually-  abusive groups is wrong.  Fearing that home education will be policed for speaking the truth and exposing wrongdoing is a misplaced fear.  God does not give us a spirit of fear; He gives us a Spirit of power and love and self control. 2 Tim 1:7.  We are told “Do not fear”, etc…hundreds of times in the Bible… We are to trust Him and obey Him. Again, NOT caring for others & NOT loving one another by Not speaking up is simply wrong and we are Not to fear. Furthermore, logically, some people outside the homeschool realm don’t have to dig very far to find stories of abuse…so they can “police” us at anytime. They are more likely to take silence — as condoning the abuse. And who among us wants to be silent, while children and women are abused? We need to keep getting the word out in our own circles of home school and non home school, Christian and non-Christian friends. If something is disgusting, let us say so clearly.

    As far as individual cases, I like how Michelle talked to her friend and the idea of continuing to educate those around us.

  7. aj says

    thanks for writing. I think you did the right thing, especially in writing the article for HEF. Thank you. Thank you for standing up for God’s AMAZING GRACE.

  8. says

    This is perhaps over-simplified, some may even call it naive.

    But I believe truth sets free. I would never trust an excuse like “they will take away our freedom to home school.”

    If we take care of the direct situation before ourselves (for example an abused child)the long run ideas usually take care of itself. In this case, if we report when needed the goverment hear that the home schooling community polices itself.

    Jesus never said to hide truth for helping someone’s reputation.

  9. Amy R. says

    Well said, Retha. I believe I must always speak. I’ve lost ‘everything’ by speaking up on behalf of a child. I lost family members, friends, churches, my reputation…but I looked at all of them together and did not find them equal to the safety of that one child. I chose the child.

    I’d do it again. Having lost everything, there’s nothing left to lose! We *know* what a fleeting thing it is to get a glimpse into a child’s horrible situation, because there’s nothing easier than to hide the abuse of a child. If we see it and say nothing, we are sending that helpless child back for more. We have no guarantee that someone more righteous than ourselves will come along and learn about it someday, and do what we lack the courage to do! Not to act the moment we know a child is in danger…unthinkable.

  10. Rebecca says

    Thank you for this article.

    Amy R, there are not enough words to thank you for speaking up the way you did. I am sorry the cost was so great. But what you did for one of the little ones, you did for Jesus. I wish more people realized that.

  11. says

    Rebecca, the same goes for you. You are one of my heroes, can I say, taking on the Pearls and the Ezzos through the years!

  12. says

    Michelle, I agree with your approach! It is so hard to know what to do. I would encourage you to also check out your state laws and see what they say. I know in Illinois, if you leave any sort of mark or bruise, that is grounds to have a child removed from the home. And if there are any other children in the home under 18 who hear the episode of “discipline” you can be charged with what is called “witnessing.”

    While the civil laws should come second to God’s law, I know that many,many people, if not most, tend to think something is moral if it is legal and not moral if it is not. One example of this is the abortion rulings…many people assume that because it is legal through all 9 months of pregnancy, it is moral. They may cringe, but polls show that they still think it is moral. Maybe being able to show what the law says can be the beginning of making an appeal also.

  13. says

    Marcia, believe it or not, a friend of mine once shared a story of being in a Yahoo group with homeschoolers and one of the popular homeschooling speakers on the circuit today talked about slapping kids as though it was no big deal. To me, slapping is really insulting. And, of course, done in the heat of the moment in anger, which is not how we are supposed to correct kids anyway.

  14. Amy R. says

    How do we, as Christian homeschoolers, begin to discuss abuse as a risk of joining/following certain homeschooling leaders or groups? How do we tell about the real consequences that some have endured without beginning to stereotype or fear-monger?

    I know that not all Ezzo parents starve their babies. I know that not all Pearl parents beat their children senseless. I know that not all ATI families send their innocent, young daughters to Gothard’s HQ. I know not all FIC church leaders are guilty of covering up crime. But these outcomes are starting to be well-known in each of these circles.

    How do we say to someone who is just beginning to be enamored of any of these guru-led lifestyles that they may someday endanger their children because of their affinity toward the image they are being sold? How do we say, “That’s nice if you want to be like the Duggars, but be aware that Gothard himself seems to be a pervert as well as a twister of scripture,” without alienating our friend or acquaintance that is starting down that road?

    The cult-like aspects of these groups astonish me. As soon as you criticize, or even think aloud critically (but kindly and respectfully), you are the enemy. You are the outsider. You are not like-minded. You are “the world.” This has been my experience.

    What do we do? How do we reclaim Christian homeschooling? How do we not get tarred with this brush and how do we warn others?

  15. says

    Amy, have been thinking about your comments……

    I wish I knew the answer. I do think there are a couple things to consider…..

    First, the whole patriocentric paradigm is most definitely a woman-driven one. I have yet to meet a family in this movement who doesn’t either have a mom pushing it from behind the scenes or a passive women, some who even know better, foolishly pumping up her man’s ego. So I think a mom’s heart is what must be changed. Sadly, the notion that “women are more easily deceived” has become sacrosanct and legendary. I think it is important to convince women that they need to be in the Word for themselves and to see that Jesus believed women needed to be there as well (Mary and Mary).

    Also, I think that each generation of moms has strengths and weaknesses they bring to the discussion of raising kids. Hoping to blog about that in a little more details this week. I will say that it is troubling for me to see some of the long time homeschoolers having so much attitude about the “right way” to raise kids. I want to scream about that sometimes. Anyway…..

    Also, last week Frank Viola’s blog hit the top ten list of Christian bloggers. That is significant, I think, in that it says hierarchy is on the way out. Combined with Barna’s research showing women fleeing from the church because of those attitudes as well and I think it isn’t just a problem in homeschooling circles.

    What do you think?

  16. Vanessa S says

    Amy and Karen – I completely understand where you are coming from with long-time home schoolers. Unknown to me at the time what the background of some veteran home schoolers was, I was directly accused of being “the devil” trying to ruin a home school group. This couple did not want their children associating with those in a home school assist program (because they may rub elbows with un-believers) let alone that we are a strong Christian family. It’s as if these long time home schoolers are only looking at the environment which surrounds their children and trying to isolate them from sin – not realizing that sin is in the heart. I have forgiven this couple and it saddens me where their thinking is. The approval of men can be quite a pull on our decisions.

    I’ve observed over the last few years that it’s not necessarily a home schooling issue, it is a parenting issue of some who home school. I believe much of it is based on fear which then applies the law and totally negates grace. I’m so very thankful for Elyse Fitzpatrick and her books which has greatly helped pull my husband and I out of this law parenting. As well as Wayne Jacobson’s book “He Loves Me”. And very thankful we never got totally immersed in any of the above mentioned ministries. We used a sprinkling of Ezzo and Pearl but never bought it hook line and sinker – something always seemed not quite completely correct. For years I’ve wondered where the teaching of “obeying immediately, completely, without challenge or complaint” comes from. What scripture are they twisting? No one has ever been able to answer this question for me.

    You mentioned strengths and weaknesses of each generation – I can see a strength of the coming generation will be Grace and how the Law turns us to it.

    Do you have the link to Frank Viola’s blog – I’m curious.

  17. says

    You know what’s really sad?

    Years ago when I was first promoted to a supervisory position, my mentor sent me for management training. (He said that technical people don’t know how to manage other people – they can manage things, but not people. I’ve seen exceptions to that but I totally get what he was saying.)

    Anyway, my daughter was about five or six when I did this, so it was about twenty years ago. I learned a lot and it definitely helped me on my job, and I still draw from it, but it also helped me in my marriage and in raising my daughter. And one thing that struck me hard is that managers are expected to be much more merciful to employees than parents are with children. Before you discipline a direct report, you have to assure yourself that he knew what he was supposed to do, and knew that he really was supposed to do it (two different things), and was able to do it, and simply chose not to. Whereas kids are sometimes punished (won’t call it discipline) because they don’t read their parents’ minds or got on their nerves at a bad time, or because they are simply immature children exhibiting behavior that’s inconvenient but age-appropriate. I can’t stand to see people being rude and ugly to their kids in public. It upsets me. You can’t talk to coworkers that way because HR will be on you like a duck on a june bug, but you can talk to your own kid like he’s a dog. Hate that.

  18. Nellie says

    Hello Everyone,
    I’ve been lurking around here for awhile and just want to say that I appreciate the posts and some of the wonderful commentary. Even where folks might not see eye to eye, I see much graciousness in how people interact, and that means a lot to me.

    Relatives of mine a number of years ago started talking about things in the Bible in a way I’ve never heard of despite my growing up in the church and being familiar with doctrinal differences across dominations. They would speak of “curses” and Mosaiac Law somehow extending to modern day Christians, and a number of things I found strange. This also coincided with some lifestyle changes such as homeschooling and the wife, who had always worn pants or shorts in appropriate venues, would now exclusively wear long skirts even where not very practical. By the way, I don’t wish to mock those who have this conviction, it was just yet another big change that I observed during that timeframe. However, given the long distance relationship between us and these family members, we really were not in a position to think much of these observances or connect the dots.

    One of my biggest concerns was that is seemed these family members had no joy or sense of freedom in Christ. I remember a particular interaction where I walked away thinking, if these people weren’t Christians you could easily mistake them for orthodox Jews because they are living under the burden of the Law, given their own set of rules that they’ve made up.

    As these family members continued to descend into things that just didn’t seem quite right, and because I recalled hearing them speak of Gothard, I decided to do some research. Finally, a lot of things made sense.

    I am sharing this because sometimes I do think it is extremely helpful to people to name names and explain the known ideologies associated with certain groups or teachers so that people who have the sense that “something is not right here” can understand what it is they are observing and make some informed judgments about it. I also think it is especially helpful to the young people who have grown up in these systems, and have never known anything different, but yet have the sense that “the way I’m growing up is not right”. Because they may not have an adult in their life who can validate the wrong they sense is being done to them, it may help to have blogs and Internet sources to help them understand.

    In families that are not abusive who embrace or lean toward these ideologies, there certainly are practices that are dysfunctional and damaging and do not follow the example of the Lord. The good Lord himself gives us much freedom. Yes, we are given some very precise instructions concerning some things, but in a lot of what we do, he gives freedom.. The Bible says nothing of exactly how we have to dress, what music to listen to, what books to read, what food we have to eat, how many times a week we have to go to church, what sort of vocation to have, etc etc etc. We are given principles, and the Holy Spirit guides in how to execute those principles. How sad it is that these parents can’t follow the example of the Lord with their kids, especially given how much they readily refer to them as “blessings”. I’m not saying that parents can’t have standards and expectations in those areas, they should,, but the problem is when they label things as sinful or less righteous, where there is no such precise Biblical standard.

  19. says

    Vanessa, you said “For years I’ve wondered where the teaching of “obeying immediately, completely, without challenge or complaint” comes from. What scripture are they twisting? No one has ever been able to answer this question for me.”

    I agree. This is one of many of those phrases that I can’t seem to get answers to myself. Like “Mommy can’t see your happy heart” or to “spank unto repentance.”

  20. says

    Laura, your points about treating others better than we treat our own children is quite poignant. I have shared this story before but will do so again.

    Years ago I was at a potluck dinner where one of the mothers was cutting cheesecake into slices. My youngest son, who was 8 or 9, was standing next to me, his eyes round and wide, excited about having his most favorite dessert in the world! I said something like “Joe can hardly wait to eat your cheesecake.” Looking irritated, the woman said “Oh, the cheesecake is only for the adults” with absolutely no qualms about saying it. Joe’s face was crestfallen and he looked like he might cry. So when she handed me a slice, I turned and gave mine to Joe. That woman was highly irritated and I didn’t care. What sort of mindset does somebody have to have to do such a thing?

  21. Amy R. says

    I’m sorry for taking so long to get back to this…

    Karen, I’m afraid I don’t quite know what I think concerning how to be salt and light in our own Christian homeschooling community as regards this topic. I’m just sitting back waiting for the good answers!
    Personally, I admit I am very biased. I fall into judgment too easily, based on too many personal interactions with women and children who are being harmed by this patriarchal paradigm. I may understand what’s going on, but I lack the objectivity and grace to be of much use to the One who was gentle to all. 🙁
    Praise God, I have the opportunity to educate and mentor one young lady who has suffered a great deal. I’m tutoring her through a distance learning situation. I can’t talk much about her publicly, but I’ve learned from working with this young girl that for me it takes two hours of prayer for every hour of work! Or else I just give her my best, and then spend the rest of the day inwardly angry. It’s His grace restraining my tongue concerning her reality and giving me the right words to help her learn without bitterness. It’s so hard. So hard.
    It will take wiser and more level-headed people, I think, to make a big difference. I was so encouraged by your podcasts with Pastor Mathis. I think men like him might be a tremendous piece of the puzzle: Well-versed and orthodox Christians who do not pander to the mindset at all but rather just point out the facts. It was so refreshing. I would like to see Christians band together to take on the false teaching, and I am praying for pastors to hold the line when this comes to their churches.

  22. Amy R. says

    Vanessa, thank you for giving me something else to pray for! I will pray that if this generation are the Israelites struggling under the weight of the law, their children will look to Jesus whose yoke is easy and whose burden is light. Good thought.

  23. says

    “personally, I admit I am very biased. I fall into judgment too easily, based on too many personal interactions with women and children who are being harmed by this patriarchal paradigm.” Singing my song, Amy!

    I agree, I am so thankful for Shawn and other pastors who are willing to speak the truth about the FIC and other issues that are harmful to families.

  24. says

    “You mentioned strengths and weaknesses of each generation – I can see a strength of the coming generation will be Grace and how the Law turns us to it. ”

    Yes, amen to this, Vaneassa!

  25. says

    Amy, I fall into the same trap of being too judgmental. It’s a problem for me no matter which side of the spectrum I’m on! I get too upset by patriarchy and have trouble being gentle and understanding.

    Karen, I loved your cheesecake story! Good for you!

  26. Anthea says

    “Looking irritated, the woman said “Oh, the cheesecake is only for the adults” with absolutely no qualms about saying it. Joe’s face was crestfallen and he looked like he might cry.”

    Adult cheesecake? Was it gin and tonic flavour, or something? Crazy.

    Before anyone gets offended (She mentioned ALCOHOL!), let me just remind you that I am from Europe. It really is different over here.

    P.S. This post is scary, but timely. So keep on keeping on, Karen.

  27. Anthea says


    For the first time in a long time, I read the bit at the side of your blog, with all the quotations, etc.

    Your explanation of the gospel is lovely, and your loving heart comes through.

    Gotta go. Lasagna tonight.

  28. Nicole says

    Another perspective on the issue…

    Although not raised in any of these extremest churches, I did suffer physical, emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse as a child. I was always perplexed that my God-fearing family could not or would not see what was going on. I spent my childhood hoping that the family members not abusing me would stop those who were. Most of my days were spent either feeling invisible, or wishing I was.

    By God’s grace I came through it all and am not what I should have been. I have forgiven my abusers and those who should have protected me. However, the sad fact is, I still have wounds that will not be fully healed this side of heaven. Every now and then, something happens that triggers painful memories.

    One such event happened a couple of years ago when an older cousin, reminiscing about the events surrounding my childhood, stated that all the great aunts, uncles and second cousins felt so bad for me, knowing I was unwanted and unloved. She told me that her mom even came and took me for a short time as an infant because she was concerned about how thin I was and about the fact that I had an untreated diaper rash (from being left unchanged for days) that rendered my bottom a peeling, red mass of blistered flesh.

    She told me this in such a casual manner, as if she were recalling an ordinary day in the life. I was stunned. Although part of me was relieved that it wasn’t my imagination (that persistent feeling of being unloved), most of me was furious. How could these people whom I had so loved my whole life have let me suffer just for the sake of keeping peace in the family?

    So, thank you Amy R. and the others who have forgone personal comfort to stand up for the innocent. I know the child(ren) you helped will be forever grateful that SOMEONE saw their suffering and said,”THAT’S NOT OKAY!”

    Another great discussion Karen. Keep up the good work.


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