The Betrothal Movie

Any thoughts?

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  1. Nellie says

    Wow! Lots to say here but I may have come back later when I’m less busy. Anyone find it ironic that despite what seems to be a Patriocentric ideology, she actually somewhat removes herself from her own Dad and finds a “spiritual” Dad who is likeminded in her beliefs? I thought that if you are truly Patriocentric then you respect the wishes of your father…who in this case has given her the freedom to decide on her own who to marry. Basically, what she’s doing her is circumventing Dad to do it her own way, which is not really what her own ideology is about. Hope what I’m saying makes sense.

  2. Pressing On says

    Such a dear girl! She wants someone to love her, someone who is truly loving and serving the Lord.

    I’m not sure about her methods though. I hope that we are involved when our children begin pursuing relationships, but I wouldn’t expect a working adult to want the same involvement that a younger person would.

    We were working adults, living many states away and discussed our plans with our parents out of courtesy. Neither of us expected approval/disapproval though. There was a lot of drama on my side because a few weeks before the date my unbelieving mother decided to do everything she could to stop the wedding because she didn’t want me to marry a believer (ironically my non-believing father stayed out of this and told me privately that he disagreed). So what do you do in a situation like that?

    Ultimately we followed the Lord’s leading and asked our church leadership for guidance, and the wedding went on. I always think of that though when someone is very heavy-handed about having parent approval for courtship/marriage.

  3. Jerzy says

    What is the obsession with giving the first kiss to your husband? I had my first kiss in the 6th grade. And I kissed plenty of boys in between then and when I met my husband. I did not have any less love to give him. The fact that I kissed other boys has NOT affected our relationship in the slightest. The physical aspects of a relationship are the least important when you love someone.

    All this does is give bragging rights to those who choose this path and can set up a “holier than thou” attitude in the person who practices it. And it can heap guilt on those who don’t.

    Lots of symbolism over substance.

    And I agree with Nellie. The paradigm is king, even if it means breaking it to achieve it.

  4. Monique says

    Oh my, so many red flags going off for me with this one. I echo many of the thoughts and concerns already mentioned.

    One question that keeps coming to mind is WHY she chose this. She didn’t get encouragement from her parents obviously. Did she feel pressure? Did she believe this was “THE” way to find a husband?

    The potential danger that jumps out at me is that her whole worth as a woman and Christian is wrapped up in fitting into this courtship mold.
    And then there’s the temptation to use this as a measuring stick (as Jerzy said) for your faith and others’ faith as well.
    Just because she goes through this process and saves her first kiss doesn’t guarantee a great marriage and a fairy tale kind of life. These kind of films tend to sell the message that if you do life a certain way (homeschool, courtship, etc.) you can trust the method more the Creator!

    I’ve personally known of two courtship modeled marriages that have failed in divorce. It’s sad to see the struggle in their faith/trust in God because they “failed” in their eyes.

    My own marriage (30 years now) came out of a blind date! We dated (and kissed) for a number of years (yep, disco was in☺) before we got married. Also, my husband wasn’t a believer for a long time until just before we did get married. We definitely didn’t fit the mold with me dating a non-Christian. I know that may not be an ideal situation, but the point is that the Lord can and does things sometimes quite unexpectedly! He doesn’t need us to fit into some kind of mold to move in our lives.

    I hope and pray their marriage is healthy and happy, but ultimately that they trust Him, not some formula for a ready-made fairy tale life.

  5. Nellie says

    It’s kind of like kissing is the new virginity among certain groups. I don’t wish to mock this in a culture full of sexual looseness, but I just wonder when kissing became the standard. When I was growing up the standard among my Chrsitian circle was keep your clothes on and keep your hands off certain areas.

    I also can’t help but think of how this is nuancing or specializing yourself into a situation where it does become hard to find a mate. When I was young, I was hopeful of finding a Chrsitian, who was largely doctrinely similar and loved The Lord, but beyond that I was open to anything, as long a there was compatibility on a number of important issues. When you are entrenched in such a specific paradigm, looks like it makes it all that much harder to find someone. Also, do they even consider compatibility and all the practical issues? Or, is it assumed that if he’s interested and she’s interested, and they believe in all these same rules or engagement and “proper” living, that surely it’s a match made in heaven?

    Finally, God made the sparrow but they have to leave the nest to go find food. The food doesn’t come to them and they would starve if they just sat there. I’ve not really understood the whole concept of women waiting on God to bring someone, although I believe in God’s involvement in the process and I don’t believe He needs our help to accomplish His plans…where our actions and His meet is one of those mysteries for me personally.

  6. says

    I’m with the girl’s dad on this one–“weird.”

    And I agree with Nellie–not kissing is the new virginity. Except with this version it’s usually widely publicized that the couple/son/daughter/sibling has made the decision to save their first kiss for the altar, sometimes the pastor even announces at the wedding that this is the couple’s first kiss. “Real” virginity doesn’t seem to be talked about or publicized as much. I was committed to not having sex before marriage but I don’t recall ever making a big deal about it to other people or that my mom made a big deal about it to her friends and acquaintances. It was a commitment between myself and God (and eventually my boyfriend/fiancé) and I never felt the need to broadcast it.

  7. Laura (old OR vintage) says

    Jerzy, you really broke a cardinal rule when you suggested that it wasn’t the end of the world to kiss a boyfriend.

    I am not suggesting that really serious intimacy with lots of boyfriends is a good thing. Quite the contrary. But what strikes me as weird is that 1) Most of these “courtship” parents kissed plenty during their single days, and 2) They found their spouses usually without parental involvement! Sometimes at school! Blind dates! The beach! etc etc!

    How is this? Are their mates somehow not God’s “choice” for them?

    One of our 3 married kids met her husband in kind of a courtship type way, but was free to go places and do things with him after meeting. The other 2 met their mates on their own. All 3 have loving Christian partners, Thank God!

    None of us want our kids to do the foolish things we did, and hopefully they will be wiser in many ways. But how dare we hold our kids to bizarre standards and experiment with their young adult years to prove that our unproven theories are right?

    All this business about waiting and waiting for a mate to magically appear is creating a LOT of older young adults who are single…and not sure why. I have seen it! And what is wrong with wanting love and marriage? So much literature out there suggests that if you desire to be married, something is wrong with your faith, because you are not “content enough”. Didn’t God say “It is not good that man should be alone?” They are holding kids to a higher standard that God did Adam. THAT is legalism!

  8. says

    If you all get a chance, watch the other available videos that go along with this trailer. It is straight out of the patriarchs’ playbook. I am especially alarmed at how the wife who is mentoring Kelly actually believes that she is not responsible for any problems in their household because her husband has taken on the mantle. What do you bet they attend an FIC?

  9. says

    Laura, and then there is the opposite view of believing everyone must be married, which is what the patrios are actually teaching.

  10. Anthea says

    My first thought, and it may be to do with my cultural background, was that it was so disrespectful to her parents to go to someone else and say, in effect,’ My parents are no spiritual use, can you do better?’ It may be, if you have unbelieving parents, that another couple may fulfil a mentoring role, but I would never put that out there on film, in public. I would be discreet about it, so as to avoid “shamin’ them up”. That is an important thing, sort of not “uncovering his nakedness”; to be tactful about what we see as our parents’ failings. Of course, her parents are quite commonsensical, so it’s even more strange to me. That was my first reaction, and I almost forgot what the film was about.

    As for the betrothal thing, my husband and I always say that we had an arranged marriage — our friend Karen arranged it. Yes, a fix-up! She stitched me up, good and proppa!

  11. M. Joy says

    The over the top sadness about not having saved her first kiss for marriage is disturbing. In no way has she lost her value as a woman because of that. I personally know some couples who have divorced over the years and some of the wives said the same thing to me – they were shocked that they ended up divorced because they thought as long as both partners were virgins when they married, everything would be ok. THAT is the message that is being sent to these poor young people.

    There is so much more to maintaing a healthy marriage than both people being virgins. I agree that God’s plan is to remain pure until marriage. But for those who have sinned in this area, their entire sense of worth as a human being is NOT dependent on this. It’s almost as if the message young women are getting is that if you have sex before marriage, you’re used up and no man will ever have anything to do with you. (think Michael Pearl and his half eaten candy bar analogy)

    Elizabeth Smart was recently interviewed about her new book and one of the things she mentioned was that part of the reason she didn’t try to escape from her kidnapper was the shame of her rape. One of her quotes is: Smart said while being held captive, she remembered one of her teachers from junior high school imply, if a girl didn’t practice abstinence until marriage, she would be like a chewed up piece of gum. Smart relays: “I thought, ‘Oh, my gosh, I’m that chewed up piece of gum, nobody re-chews a piece of gum, you throw it away.’ And that’s how easy it is to feel like you know longer have worth, you know longer have value.”

    Sighhhhhh. I hope young women will see the error in this type of attitude.

  12. Nellie says

    I agree M Joy…the amount of emotion and regret this woman has over having kissed someone before is strange. It’s putting extreme emphasis and emotion on some standard of perfection that really is a bit arbitrary. Again, I just have to wonder if when people like this choose a mate if they really consider the things that can be so critical to marital happiness and harmony or is just about he/she’s a virgin (or more stringently, kissed anyone before) and what Christian sect/paradigm they follow.

  13. Pressing On says

    Yes, I watched the others, and I see how they fit.

    It got me too that the mentor says that she isn’t responsible for problems. Any stay-at-home mom who won’t take responsibility for the day-to-day issues with raising children and running a household is asking for trouble. of course maybe she is taking responsibility, but looks to her husband for overall guidance and reinforcement the way many of us do.

    I always think of a friend of mine in these discussions. She has six children and hauled the laundry to the laudromat for six weeks because her husband said he’d look at the washer and didn’t remember to do that. She said that it would undermine his authority to remind him and that he was in charge of anything that required spending money. He was in charge of calling any service people. Finally one of the kids complained about having to homeschool every day at the laundromat, and he remembered and called the repairman.

  14. says

    JC, my husband and I both grew up American Baptist and I graduated from an American Baptist college. In our 38 plus years of marriage we have mostly been in Baptist churches and we hold to the doctrines of grace. I should also say that we found the American Baptist denomination to be entirely too liberal for us and are so sorry to see where it has gone.

  15. Pam says

    I’m sorry to come in so late on this post. But this one line in the video just keeps bothering me. It is where the Spiritual Father said: “Kelly is staking the rest of her life on ‘is God gonna come through on this’.” This seems to me one of the most dangerous parts of this situation and others like it–the idea that God is required to do a certain thing [heal, find me the perfect spouse, fix my problems] because I’m doing all the right things [having faith, doing “courtship”, praying]. What if God doesn’t “come through on this”– at least not in the way they expect? I am concerned that faith is more in man’s teaching about God rather than in God Himself (who promised many things, but, if I remember correctly, not a perfect spouse or a perfect life.) Sounds like a recipe for disillusionment or spiritual pride depending on the outcome.

  16. Granddad says

    Pam, you’re so right. If I didn’t know better I’d think these folks had been listening to TBN!

    Didn’t someone in the Bible say something like, “I’ve learned that in whatever circumstances…”?
    Oh, ya. . .it was Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament.

    I get real nervous when I hear people even slightly suggest that God has to do anything for me. I make sure I’m not standing too close to them. 🙂

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